In this episode, we chat with Lisa Karlin Curtis, Tech Lead at incident.io, about running meetings that, well, don't suck. In it, she gives actionable advice for running your own meetings, emphasizes why empathy in the workplace is important, reflects back on bad meetings she's run, and more.
Read Lisa's blog post on running meetings here.
The transcript below has been generated using AI and does not match the audio exactly.
Lisa: So I began my career as a consultant at Accenture. I don't think I realized this at the time, but in retrospect, it was an incredibly valuable experience for running meetings because it was a significant part of the role.
I took on various roles supporting large-scale delivery projects, particularly in the realm of traditional software delivery. The most challenging aspect of these projects was the coordination and communication overhead due to numerous people and moving parts. I was fortunate to witness various approaches to running meetings, observing both effective and ineffective practices. Experiencing both sides was crucial for my learning process.
Later, I transitioned to become a software engineer. In these roles, I discovered that I had more meeting experience than many around me, especially individual contributors who typically have fewer meetings and rarely lead them. Some meetings lacked structure and preparation, which I found problematic.
Becoming aware of my ability to run effective meetings amid my coding learning journey made me feel more valuable to the team. While I might not fully understand the intricacies of the software, I could contribute by facilitating well-organized and productive meetings.
Luis: Your post's title, "How to Run Meetings That Don't Suck," is quite provocative. What prompted you to write it?
Lisa: Esther, our first CS hire who now heads revenue operations, initially recognized my proficiency in conducting meetings. She sent me a message expressing interest in learning more about my approach. Several months later, she suggested writing a blog post about it, emphasizing the value she saw in my meeting skills. Initially hesitant, I penned down some thoughts, and Esther found them highly valuable, encouraging me to publish the post. The provocative title stems from the widespread sentiment that many meetings are unproductive and tedious, a sentiment exacerbated during lockdowns and remote work due to the challenges posed by virtual meetings.
Luis: With your extensive experience leading and participating in meetings, what common mistakes do people make when running meetings?
Lisa: I believe the most common mistake lies in the distribution of power within the meeting. In theory, there should be someone facilitating or leading the meeting, but often that person lacks the necessary skills, techniques, or social capital to guide the group to the desired conclusion. This could be due to individuals dominating discussions, having different agendas, or a lack of clarity about the meeting's purpose.
The worst meetings are those where halfway through, attendees are unsure about the meeting's goals. Meetings are generally convened to make decisions, discuss ideas, or formulate plans. If this purpose isn't clear to everyone, alignment becomes challenging. Achieving alignment is often hindered by either a lack of effort in establishing it or a facilitator's insufficient social capital to enforce it. This situation leads to unproductive arguments, leaving no one satisfied.
Luis: In your post, you stress the importance of being human in meetings. Can you elaborate on this?
Lisa: This concept extends beyond meetings and applies to all work interactions. Recognizing and acknowledging the human aspects of work is crucial. Work involves human beings with emotions, physical needs, and concentration spans. Ignoring these constraints can result in repeatedly hitting these limitations. For example, long, uninterrupted virtual meetings during remote work can be draining because they lack the breaks and changes in physical environment present in on-site meetings.
Acknowledging these human elements doesn't dehumanize the work environment but allows for a more realistic and effective approach. Understanding that humans are not machines and considering their emotions, needs, and limitations fosters a work environment where individuals can thrive. This involves incorporating elements like humor during difficult conversations, taking breaks, or choosing a well-lit meeting room. Applying such considerations both in professional and personal interactions can lead to more productive and fulfilling outcomes.
Luis: The trend of calendar cleansing, reducing the number of meetings, has gained popularity. What are your thoughts on this approach?
Lisa: Calendar cleansing, especially during the rise of remote work, has become a significant topic. While there are instances where meetings could be replaced by asynchronous communication, one-way communication meetings are often a red flag. Meetings where one person dominates while others passively listen can be counterproductive. For example, Q&A sessions in large meetings may result in silence due to the sheer number of participants.
In certain cases, adjusting the format, like holding separate Q&A sessions after a presentation, can be more effective. Additionally, evaluating the frequency and necessity of recurring meetings is essential. Protecting one's time and reviewing the purpose of each meeting can prevent a day filled with unproductive meetings. However, it's crucial to recognize that some roles inherently require extensive meeting participation, and skepticism should be applied judiciously.
Luis: Running a meeting involves a balance between preparation and actual execution. How does Incident strike this balance?
Lisa: The balance between preparation and execution depends on factors such as meeting duration, meeting type, and the participants involved. Generally, longer or more extensive meetings with larger groups necessitate more preparation. Incident has found a balance by emphasizing structured communication, documentation, and asynchronous methods.
Compared to other companies of similar size, Incident places a higher value on writing and documenting. Proficiency in creating effective documents is considered an essential skill when hiring. This focus on documentation reduces the need for excessive meetings, as participants can review materials beforehand. The company also emphasizes asynchronous communication, utilizing tools like looms for video messages. This approach offers more flexibility and options for communication, contributing to a well-balanced meeting strategy.
Luis: Conducting meetings can be anxiety-inducing. Have you faced any challenges or growing pains while running your own meetings, especially early in your career?
Lisa: Certainly, I've experienced challenges and conducted some truly terrible meetings. One memorable instance involved a prolonged meeting where the group got stuck on the first question for almost the entire duration. In hindsight, I should have recognized the issue early on and redirected the discussion. However, lacking the necessary social capital and experience, I felt paralyzed in the situation.
On the positive side, Incident has a lively all-hands meeting that can get rowdy yet remains organized chaos. While I may not lead that meeting, observing others has provided valuable insights into managing such dynamic situations. Learning to navigate the fine line between chaos and organization, especially when building relationships rather than driving decisions, is an ongoing learning process for me.
Luis: If someone approached you, about to run their first meeting at a new company, and asked for three pieces of advice, what would they be?
Lisa: Firstly, ensure you send out a pre-read. Opening the meeting by referencing the pre-read sets expectations and subtly encourages participants to engage actively. It establishes the framework for the meeting and prompts those who may not have read it to listen more attentively.
Secondly, be conscious of the balance between listening and talking. Clarify the purpose of the meeting, the approach you're taking, and seek agreement from participants. This not only sets the stage but also empowers you to guide the meeting effectively.
Lastly, recognize the importance of having a lever to bail out of a meeting. Acknowledge that not every meeting will go as planned, and having the flexibility to step back, refine, and reconvene is a valuable tool. This approach ensures that meetings stay constructive and aligned with their intended outcomes.
